What isn't a peaceful protest

[ripcord]

"Vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations — none of this is a peaceful protest," the president said from the White House's Roosevelt Room. "Threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not a peaceful protest. It's against the law. Dissent is essential to democracy, but dissent must never lead to disorder or to denying the rights of others so students can finish the semester and their college education."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-campus-protests-arrests-encampments-ucla-columbia-city-college/

President Biden understands.

[betsuni]

1. K&R

[walkingman]

2. I thought it was a well thought out speech. Acknowledgement but not condescending.

[Jilly_in_VA]

3. Okay, but

How is a tent encampment on the Library Mall at the University of Wisconsin doing any of the above? I have been a student there, and the Library Mall is not even near any classroom buildings, so it doesn't interfere with people going to class. Also there are multiple entrances to the library, so it doesn't interfere with that either. No vandalism was engaged in, so far as I know, and it was peaceful.

[Demsrule86]

4. Students were harrassed by the encampment members. No need for a camp anyway.

The idea that you protest a war thousands of miles away where we can't really stop it. It is not our country. And to pretend that Hamas is a peace-loving group is foolish. American Jewish People have nothing to do with GAZA. They should not be attacked by those who feel empowered to unleash their antisemitic views.

[DavidDvorkin]

10. "those who feel empowered to unleash their antisemitic views"

Exactly what it is.

[progressoid]

17. Yeah, it's a war thousands of miles away where we can't really stop it!!

Screw the Ukraine. It is not our country...

Oh, wait, you're talking about a different war in different country that we can't stop

[Cuthbert Allgood]

40. "The idea that you protest a war thousands of miles away where we can't really stop it."

So the anti-war protests in the 60s were foolish and should have been stopped?

The vast majority of the protestors today are not attacking American Jewish People. They want the genocide to stop. They want their country to not send billions to the colonizers.

[Celerity]

8. A pro-Israel mob attacked these kids with slurs, fists, mace, and fireworks. Police watched for HOURS & did nothing.

A day later, police instead bombard *them* with rubber bullets & flashbangs.
(All in a “blue” state)
This is exactly what’s making any normal observer feel insane.

Link to tweet

Dozens of journalists were documenting through the night. Watch a live stream from independent journalist William Gude (Film The Police LA) from the night below to see the violent events transpire.

Link to tweet

https://unicornriot.ninja/2024/masked-israel-supporters-attack-uclas-palestine-solidarity-encampment-with-weapons/

Los Angeles, CA — Over more than five hours on Tuesday night, pro-Israel Zionist agitators violently beat, pepper sprayed and threw fireworks at hundreds of college students and protesters in a “unilateral, surprise attack“ as they held UCLA’s Palestine solidarity encampment while security and police stood by idly. Though police didn’t intervene until the fifth hour of the attack, the encampment stayed intact with the students repelling the continuous onslaught as they defiantly chanted “we’re not leaving” and “Free Palestine.”

The students kept the encampment together despite the violence with a policy to not engage and acting in a defensive posture. Students maintained some of the barricades made of wood and metal that protected the encampment while being punched, pummeled, kicked, hit with projectiles and sprayed with chemicals. A communique from a group of autonomous UCLA students that was sent out to media is posted at the end of the article and notes that the students feel like the violence they faced was “aided and abetted by [the] administration.”

Link to tweet

The pro-Israel vigilantes, many donning all black with masks on, became more emboldened as the night went along. A large police contingent that showed up four hours into the attack waited in the grass across the quad for an hour as dozens more attacks occurred. Attackers were recorded screaming “second Nakba” referring to the violent mass expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 to make way for the state of Israel. Al Jazeera’s Rob Reynolds said live during their broadcast that to him, the scenes were “reminiscent of settler violence” against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank without the guns.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

The pro-Palestinian students who were attacked while eating lentils held their ground throughout the night with over one hundred reported hurt and treated by street medics as police reportedly prevented EMTs from entering. Twenty people are reported to have been treated for concussions. At least four journalists with the campus’s newspaper, the Daily Bruin, were targeted and assaulted by the Israeli supporters.

snip

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6a6_owOcgH/



https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6ayx3yuJoC/

Link to tweet

[stopdiggin]

19. You respond to a question/post posed about UW

with a virtual barrage of video and tweets about UCLA
Pretty sure President Biden was upset and condemning about the ugly even in LA too.
But UW is actually in Madison, Wisconsin.

[Celerity]

39. I am aware of what UW Madison is. I posted the UCLA footage to show that the violence is not a one way street.

I admired the poster I replied to's post and just wanted to add to it, despite it being another university in a diffrent state.

[SunSeeker]

25. Police moved in overnight at UCLA and arrested hundreds without incident, like at Columbia.

Meanwhile, protesters left the heart of the UCLA campus trashed and covered in anti-semitic "River to the Sea" graffiti advocating the genocide of Jews. You ok with that?





https://ktla.com/news/local-news/ucla-campus-trashed-after-police-dismantle-encampment/

[RandySF]

33. It was wrong for the counter protesters to attack

And UC/LAPD should have acted. But it doesn’t give a free pass to tag the hall or intimidate and/or block other students from campus.

[Beastly Boy]

36. Arrest them all. No exceptions. No negotiations.

[LauraInLA]

41. The way things unraveled at UCLA was horrible, and I believe there will be

serious investigation of the school’s handling of the situation. The camp had been set up for about a week, and while the protestors may not have been violent, they were gate-keeping and refusing students access to the library. Many Jewish groups led peaceful counter-demonstrations in response without incident. But my understanding is that there were some acts of violence against Jewish students, including the girl who was hospitalized for a head wound. As the situation and tensions escalated, the opportunity was ripe for bad actors. I’m waiting for evidence that the individuals who attacked the encampment were students or even really pro-Israel activists. Of course, the lack of school or police response may make it difficult to ever find out exactly who they were.

I think the encampment, its location, and their gatekeeping were a bad idea, and I understand why the administration finally had to act to prevent further incidents. I will be interested to see how many of those arrested were actually students. Civil disobedience comes with consequences. *Meaning dispersal and arrest, not violent attacks.

[LauraInLA]

35. The problem I see is that there are so many different situations and

the “authorities” are reacting differently in all of them. I think some protests are peaceful, not interfering with other students. Others are very much different. I know at UCLA, the protesters were refusing to let students pass. I think some protests on some campuses have been fine, and some groups have negotiated with their administrations and disbanded or are continuing without incident. My college, Bryn Mawr, is one example where the protest is ongoing but civil. (We have a very strong student self-government and honor code that I think has helped.)

I don’t blame a university for setting time and place rules. And if students choose to ignore them and refuse to follow university directives, I see that as civil disobedience for which the students can expect consequences. I do think the authorities in some schools have used excessive force. Unfortunately, I think we are not surprised by their locations — Florida, for example.

I didn’t see Biden speaking about all the demonstrations everywhere — more the specific protests and colleges where these incidents have happened.

[rollin74]

5. K &R

[iemanja]

6. Where were all of you during Vietnam?

[JustAnotherGen]

11. I wasn't even a twinkle in my daddy's eye

But he was a Green Beret - so there's that.

[LeftInTX]

13. My dad was there when I was 10 in 1966. He was a pilot in the AF.

His parents were immigrants in a company town. The USAF was his way out

[iemanja]

14. Did that mean you were a supporter of that war?

[LeftInTX]

15. No, but you asked so I answered.

Do you think kids are responsible for their parents?

[iemanja]

21. I thought the meaning of my question was clear

Evidently not.

[stopdiggin]

29. you were perhaps assuming

that all who opposed the war - would de facto be supportive of the current demonstrations and tactics. And got served up a helping of, "You don't know me .. !"
I thought it was kind of fitting ...

[iemanja]

30. No

Last edited Thu May 2, 2024, 02:34 PM - Edit history (1)

But I had assumed that most DUers opposed the Vietnam war. That was clearly wrong of me.

[stopdiggin]

37. No. That assumption was probably correct.

It was in conflating that to mean something monolithic and derivative about current opinion and conditions that let you down.

It wasn't a great play - - and a handful of posters let you know it.
Peace.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[iemanja]

43. I'm not making a "play"

There is nothing funny about any of this. People are dying in tens of thousands. The lack of concern widely expressed speaks for itself.

[stopdiggin]

45. people are dying in droves in in other parts of the world as well

and do so on a fairly routine basis. Which makes the 'lack of concern' that you attempt to pin here (which I would refute in the first place) a rather selective condemnation. Are we rioting about deaths in the Congo, or Ukraine - or elsewhere? There are plenty of people 'concerned' with conditions in Gaza - that still don't think the campus protests are doing any particular good (and perhaps a good deal of damage?). (and that would apply most particularly in those elements that President Biden has seen fit to condemn). And in trying to establish this as a one-to-one, you hoist up yet another false equivalency.

"Oh, if you don't support this .. then you don't care .."

Poppycock! Who the hell said ... ?

[ShazzieB]

48. I agree with this analysis.

I was very much opposed to the Vietnam War. Like many others, I took part in protesting our country's involvement in another country's affairs and drafting our young men to wage war on half of that country's citizens.

The protests I participated in consisted of marching down the street holding signs and chanting slogans, to let everyone know of our convictions. We did not set up encampments on our college campus, try to block fellow students from going where they needed to go, or harass the kids who supported the war. We also didn't cover our faces with scarves and hide our identities. We were proud to show ourselves to the world.

I feel very little kinship with the protests that are going on right now, because so many of the protesters are engaging in tactics that are alien to me. The antisemitism that is part of some (not all) of these protests is alien to me as well.

Also:
Chanting "from the river to the sea" is not cool, because that slogan advocates giving all of the territory that used to be Palestine back to the Palestinians, which is something I cannot support. All of the people chanting that may not realize that's what it really means, but that is the fact of the matter. Chanting "Globalize the intifada" is even worse, afaic. The idea that people are using these slogans without even bothering to learn what they really mean is very disturbing to me, and the idea that some of the people chanting them do know what they mean is even more disturbing.

I really don't care for Bibi or his far right government, and I don't agree with all of his policies, but I will always stand with the Jewish people and their right to a homeland.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. It's still our 'month'

The month of the Military Child! I was born at Rammstein AFB because of an attack on the maternity ward at the Army Hospital two weeks before I was born in 1973.

My brother was born down in Fort Knox.

Few know the fear at a very young age that daddy or mommy might not come home - so give them a hug and kiss and tell you that you love them.

[LeftInTX]

20. It was not a fun time for me.

I had that fear at young age because my dad was always flying. The first thing I thought when JFK was assassinated: Caroline no longer has her beautiful father.

[JustAnotherGen]

24. I believe it

We were still in Weisbaden in 1977 during the year of Terror. Every 3 or 4 days - another one in West Germany. They did keep the Berets wives together though - since that is a sub family in the family.

We never knew where he was, what he was doing and when he was coming home.

My mom is so much braver than I am. I couldn't have been married to my dad - I'm too much of a wimp. I met my husband years after he left the Italian Special forces. He's just now able to share with me in detail what he got up to - as my dad did in 2004.

[stopdiggin]

23. sweating out a lottery number

and trying to convince myself (with some encouragement from school counselors and Uncle Sam) that I could afford college.

Which hasn't really made me any bigger fan (then or now) of wrecking sh*t, fighting other people, or taking a crap on somebody else's property.

But thanks for asking!

[Ping Tung]

27. I burned my draft card and went to lots of demos.

The draft card burning was symbolic for me. I 'd already put in my 4 years of being a trained killer. Note: I never killed anyone. My enlistment was up before they could send me to Vietnam to kill people I didn't know, had nothing against, and might have been friends with. Just so LBJ could burnish his anti-communist creds.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. .

Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.

[LauraInLA]

44. I find that quote powerful -- who is the author?

Agitation does not have to include destruction.

[calimary]

47. Wow! LOVE this quote!

Who said it? Where’d you find it?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. "Threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not a peaceful protest."

It's definitely something that happens on pretty much every college campus every day of the week, so now what?

[cab67]

18. not really.

Not at this scale, at any rate.

I've worked on a college campus for 25 years. Small protests happen once or twice a month, and they usually have to do with some decision or other by the administration. Big protests, like those we're seeing now, focused on broad societal or foreign policy issues, happen far less frequently.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. I'm not talking about protests. Students are regularly harassed, stalked and assaulted by their classmates, disrupting

their education, and taken very lightly by administrations.

[stopdiggin]

31. but we don't assume those things are sanctioned or 'OKd'

because they fly under a particular banner ...
Your attempt to be facile is falling flat. Either what is happening is important and worthy of recognition - or else it is just 'same ol, same ol'. But it can't really be both.

[cab67]

38. I misunderstood.

I apologize.

[JustAnotherGen]

12. I love him

Just love him. He always puts it where the goats can get it - at the root.

[SunSeeker]

22. K & R

[jmbar2]

28. Protest tactics need to evolve for the age of disinformation and external manipulation of our politics

Malign entities really want to split American society into warring factions ahead of the /24 election.

Now they have the young generation appearing to be at war with each other, older generations wanting to restore law and order, and confusion between ethical protest that gets out of hand, and the J6 insurrection.

We are being played masterfully. I hope the kids can figure out how to have ethical protests with all the external infiltration and media manipulation being thrown into the mix.

Democracy needs principled dissent. We also need new strategies for dissent in the presence of organized groups that want to capitalize on that dissent to destroy democracy.

[SunSeeker]

32. Exactly. Anarchists and Black Block infiltrate these encampments and cause destruction.

Encampments should not be allowed. They are destructive, dangerous, and are not necessary to get a message out. As soon as one goes up, it should be immediately dismantled by police.

The trashing of UCLA has all the hallmarks of anarchists, including their signature "A" spray painted on the buildings.





https://ktla.com/news/local-news/ucla-campus-trashed-after-police-dismantle-encampment/

[JCMach1]

34. We also don't need meaningless and myopic protests

that only undermine the political stability of institutions at home.

[Fla Dem]

42. Thank you, President Biden.

[calimary]

46. GREAT point, Mr. President! VERY VERY timely reminder!

You’re not just the Chief Executive of the U.S. You’re the conscience of the U.S.

[ripcord]

49. He really speaks his mind doesn't he?