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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBernie Sanders: 'This may be Biden's Vietnam'
Sen. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) says student protesters are right to question US military aid to an Israeli government in a destructive war against the Palestinian people.
IronLionZion
(45,683 posts)then it's Deja Vu all over again.
Turbineguy
(37,430 posts)trump has rehabbed every bad president, world wide.
PufPuf23
(8,869 posts)Mad_Machine76
(24,464 posts)that somebody was going to go there? Except this time, this isn't an American-led war. So, what does he even do????
IronLionZion
(45,683 posts)Mad_Machine76
(24,464 posts)I have a feeling though that there are some ill-intentioned people that will want it to.
paleotn
(18,018 posts)And we thought "the stupid" only infected the Republican Party.
David__77
(23,646 posts)Mad_Machine76
(24,464 posts)hueymahl
(2,515 posts)emulatorloo
(44,279 posts)FakeNoose
(32,925 posts)Bernie Sanders isn't helping anyone with these comments. There's no comparison of Gaza with the Vietnam War and there's no correlation to our involvement in Southeast Asia. So why is Bernie even opening his mouth? He sounds like a fool.
TomSlick
(11,156 posts)For Bibi, slaughter of Palestinian civilians is the goal - not collateral damage. Bibi also desperately wants Trump to win the election.
President Biden is in a bind. Most Americans support Israel in its existential struggle against Hamas. A much smaller number is concerned about the killing of Palestinians. The problem is those few people hold Biden responsible for Bibi's use of US weapons to kill Palestinians AND Biden needs those same few people in the election.
Bibi needs the war in order to stay in office and out of prison. Hamas also has no incentive for peace. It is unconcerned about civilian deaths, whether Israeli or Palestinians - it's only objective is war.
I don't see the answer but President Biden and his advisors are smarter than I. An answer must be found quickly.
Skittles
(153,328 posts)I think he is also a big factor in how we ended up with Donald Fucking Trump.
agingdem
(7,879 posts)Gaza is not Vietnam...the United States is not in this war...our kids are not fighting and dying in a faraway country...
shrike3
(3,910 posts)Abortion rights and the economy are more important. What directly affects the American public is what's important. The war, tragic as it is, does not.
Happy Hoosier
(7,496 posts)Honestly, I can't understand how anybody would think enabling a Trump victory helps this matter.
Trump would set Nutandyahoo free to do as he will.
womanofthehills
(8,819 posts)People are upset about the price of groceries and the cost of rent and that young people will never be able to buy a house. Car insurance is up, house insurance it up and many ask why arent we given another thousand dollars - why are other countries getting it. One thing that upsets me is we give so much to Israel and they have universal healthcare and Americans dont.
The young get their news from social media so they see the dead & dying Gaza babies everyday - older folks get their news from cable TV so they dont see the images. I m sure many of the kids protesting are out there for multiple reasons -
paleotn
(18,018 posts)shrike3
(3,910 posts)I'd say that's a bit of a stretch. Given the signs, headgear, chants, clothing, speeches, they're protesting the Israel-Hamas war.
JonAndKatePlusABird
(317 posts)1) as a 36 year old, just about everyone in my age cohort is fine with the tiktok ban
2) why do you consistently spell it as tictoc when its TikTok?
Hope22
(1,913 posts)I feel like TSF cooked this up and paid for it with stolen intelligence! But god knows how long it will be for any of that debacle to rise to the top of the cesspool! 50 years these folks have been at each other. For some reason it was the perfect time for an unprovoked attack! And this is Bidens fault. Makes sense!
betsuni
(25,853 posts)lapucelle
(18,419 posts)It certainly isn't folks who threaten not to vote or go third party, every four years like clockwork.
betsuni
(25,853 posts)Last edited Sat May 4, 2024, 07:31 PM - Edit history (1)
constantly scolded about being disappointing and inept and breaking promises and the whole slander thing about being corrupt immoral elites ignoring the working/middle class and on and on. Sigh.
No matter what they imagine, the Democratic base are not secret socialists mad at Democrats for not being "progressive" enough.
pstokely
(10,543 posts)people under 30 may lean left, but they don't really have any attachment to the Dems or GQP unless they came from strong Demo or Puke families
Danmel
(4,945 posts)Does Israel have the right to defend her land and her people from being raped and dismembered?
Does righteous resistance include playing catch with lopped off breasts?
Bernie, stfu already.
Are you trying to re-elect Trump??
uponit7771
(90,378 posts)Mad_Machine76
(24,464 posts)But supporting Israel and sending them weapons is nothing new. And it's not like we can just afford to cut them off.
BannonsLiver
(16,549 posts)People think taking away roughly 13 percent of their weapons will stop the war. It wont.
Mad_Machine76
(24,464 posts)I just don't get why some other people don't.
BannonsLiver
(16,549 posts)iemanja
(53,137 posts)It costs us to give weapons to Israel. What do you mean we can't afford to cut them off?
Mad_Machine76
(24,464 posts)not financial
womanofthehills
(8,819 posts)Of houses with children - we are also responsible for all those deaths.
BannonsLiver
(16,549 posts)Taking the weapons away wont keep them from doing what theyre doing. Its naive to think otherwise.
womanofthehills
(8,819 posts)Release the hostages or not, Bibi plans to flatten Rafah with our bombs. Sounds like he wants to kill the men and teen boys as he will have checkpoints where they wont be allowed to leave with their families. Hard to think America is not going to pay for this new slander.
Hope22
(1,913 posts)Damned if you dont!
BannonsLiver
(16,549 posts)uponit7771
(90,378 posts)ColinC
(8,355 posts)No
That's complicated
Yes
No comment
former9thward
(32,189 posts)For the first time in history, the United States on Monday established an official, permanent military base in Israel: an air defense base in the heart of the Negev desert.
Dozens of US Air Force soldiers will call home the new base, located inside the Israeli Air Forces Mashabim Air Base, west of the towns of Dimona and Yerucham.
Brig. Gen. Tzvika Haimovitch, head of the IAFs Aerial Defense Command, announced the establishment of the installation on Monday evening.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-us-establishes-permanent-military-base-in-israel/
How many troops are there is unknown.
walkingman
(7,717 posts)DJ Synikus Makisimus
(222 posts)Neither, really, does Israel. What matters is that the GOP unites while the Democrats disintegrate, just like during the Vietnam War. Israel is just the button being pushed by a party that coddles Nazis and legislates in favor of oligarchs, and the USA will probably fall for it. It's about power and the exercise thereof. I'm not even really sure that AIPAC care about Israel, what they care about is increasing the power and privilege of the oligarchy - which in the USA is called "conservatism".
The Magistrate
(95,273 posts)Like an old cavalry charger hears a trumpet call, starts kicking at the traces of the milk-cart he's harnessed to pull....
NanaCat
(1,597 posts)Because his fan cub is so trigger happy with the alert button, and the DU moderators seem to be fine with silencing criticism of him.
Cha
(298,193 posts)SoFlaBro
(2,022 posts)Cha
(298,193 posts)that aren't holding back though.
SoFlaBro
(2,022 posts)Cha
(298,193 posts)I'm so much better at it now.:
betsuni
(25,853 posts)Now I just work around it.. think I get my point across though.
betsuni
(25,853 posts)A lot of things are clearer to people now.
Cha
(298,193 posts)go over so well.
President Biden
sheshe2
(84,113 posts)%&^*! &^% *! #%)& *%^@% 1!!!!!!
betsuni
(25,853 posts)sheshe2
(84,113 posts)Cha
(298,193 posts)AnrothElf
(698 posts)One is trying a little harder by not using personal first or second person pronouns when speaking of oneself or one's interlocutors.
So far so good!
betsuni
(25,853 posts)yowzayowzayowza
(7,019 posts)ColinC
(8,355 posts)I think that will bode well politically for our side.
LiberalFighter
(51,409 posts)His actions and words of the past didn't match.
AnrothElf
(698 posts)As soon as Biden entered the race, he had my full support.
Coincidentally, Kamala Harris was my 2nd choice.
SCORE!!
Cha
(298,193 posts)mcar
(42,481 posts)NickB79
(19,304 posts)Calling Planned Parenthood the "establishment" was pretty bad and look how that turned out.
brush
(53,982 posts)and been a team player with the Biden Admin, as opposed to how you fought against Hillary tooth and nail.
There's no chance, so don't even think about primarying Joe. You time has long since passed. It's time to gather forces and back Joe against the fascist, wannabee dictator trump.
Response to NickB79 (Reply #17)
Post removed
SoFlaBro
(2,022 posts)BlueTsunami2018
(3,517 posts)This is not and Im sick of people acting like it is. This is the United States. We arent Israel, we arent Gaza. It annoys me that people care about this more than peripherally like we do with every other foreign war.
Yeah, its terrrible, all war is but its not our fault and not our problem.
Were a hairsbreadth from losing our republic and this is the thing thats so important?
Get some fucking priorities.
betsuni
(25,853 posts)be spoken of again even though Trump greatly expanded drone warfare. Just as emails disappeared the day after the 2016 election.
This is the same thing, manufactured for one purpose -- defeat Democrats.
JI7
(89,293 posts)and wanting to see everything based on that.
When things happening today are not the same. They have their own history and facts that deserve understanding .
Israel was attacked. Vietnam did not attack us. Biden isn't the leader of Israel.
BannonsLiver
(16,549 posts)Last edited Sun May 5, 2024, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)
There are some folks who need to close the yearbook and get out of the 60s.
AnrothElf
(698 posts)My dad's gone down the nostalgia rabbit-hole with the student protests.
It's just that: nostalgia.
Cha
(298,193 posts)Last edited Thu May 2, 2024, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)
and Attack , at times Violently, Jewish Students, People, and Smear Jewish Businesses'
Get the whole Picture not just some of it.
Pres Biden is Going to win in spite of all these attempts to put this on Pres Biden.
Netanyahu wants Biden gone and the protesters screaming "genocide Joe" are fucking Assisting.
Demsrule86
(68,875 posts)Cha
(298,193 posts)throw ".. .. could be PJB's Vietnam moment.." when it s NOT.
LenaBaby61
(6,980 posts)Cha
(298,193 posts)lol Nice Graphic!
Response to Mr. Sparkle (Original post)
Post removed
shrike3
(3,910 posts)There is no draft, there is no chance most of the protestors will ever go to Gaza in the way young Americans might have in Vietnam.
People who are not sure if they'll vote for Biden should keep in mind what kind of website they are on, and its terms of service.
Cha
(298,193 posts)🕯️🕊️💙
LauraInLA
(430 posts)Lets say Biden cut off the @10% of weapons that we sent to Israel and stopped the funding, regardless of the blowback here, etc. Israel would still prosecute the war. But the U.S. would have no say, no ability to sway events at all. So Id assume Netanyahu would cease using any restraint, and the carnage would be even worse.
Both Hamas and Netanyahu have parties with some influence on what they do if the backers just stepped away, stopped providing aid, and washed their hands of the affair, there would be no brakes on Hamas or Israels actions. The backers and aid are all that is keeping Hamas and Netanyahu involved in any sort of negotiations Hamas wants a regional war, and Netanyahu might actually want to destroy the Palestinians and definitely wants to destroy Iran , which would also mean a regional war.
I dont want to imagine what would probably happen afterward throughout the Middle East, which would not stay contained there.
Demsrule86
(68,875 posts)Nixon was elected and war went on...this is not our war. And the behavior of protestors is pretty terrible and does not make one sympathize. We have our own issues in this country. I don't like Hamas and I don't like Netanyahu. Biden can only do so much. if those protesting folks think Trump will help Palestinians...I have a bridge to sell.
brush
(53,982 posts)The convention in Chicago will not have Abbie Hoffman and the Yippies and a police riot.
No, Bernie, it's not time to dust off your running shoes. Stop itching to primary Joe Biden and get behind him to fight against the orange turd threat against our democracy.
LisaM
(27,865 posts)This is such a false comparison. What's happening is terrible. No one is denying that. But it's only been going on for about 7 months and Biden as far as I can tell wants to end it. Maybe he has a magic button we don't know about?
I honestly believe that the people who are pushing this as Biden's Vietnam WANT it to be Biden's Vietnam. Because the comparisons are ludicrous and, IMO, dangerous.
DFW
(54,529 posts)H is very addictive, whether it stands for Heroin or Headlines.
uponit7771
(90,378 posts)betsuni
(25,853 posts)help resolve the conflict. Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam started showing up everywhere. Repeating it makes it true.
Saw a young protester interviewed on the news who said she used to support Biden "until I realized who he really was."
War criminal. Complicit. Genocide Joe. Can stop wars in other countries by picking up the phone but won't, should've acted sooner. Satan-monster! News also started out with Biden "breaking his silence" about student protests. As if they've been going on for years.
It's transparent. And if Trump wins, it will disappear the day after the election just as Obama-drones and Hillary-emails did. Same thing.
LexVegas
(6,122 posts)OutNow
(870 posts)I'm old enough to remember the 1868 election. HHH, unfortunately, continued to support LBJ's pro-war policies in Vietnam. Nixon claimed (a lie of course) that he had a "secret plan" to end the war.
We'll see that scenario repeat itself this year. Now what do we do about it? In particular, what should be do to ensure a Republican loss in November? Here is my plan. 1. Continue to support and vote for Joe Biden. Encourage others to vote and support Joe Biden. 2. Support the student protesters. Their aims are valid. Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism. Anyone who thinks it is doesn't understand history. There has always been a struggle within the Jewish diaspora to support or oppose Zionism. My family was involved many decades ago with ORT.
sarisataka
(18,950 posts)Did you vote for Grant or Seymour?
JohnSJ
(92,556 posts)brush
(53,982 posts)and he's not up against Hillary again. He wants to feel relevant again, okay, but do it by getting behind Joe Biden to fight for our democracy against trump and his Plan 2025 that outlines his plans to demolish democracy and usher in fascism.
It's not time to dust off the running shoes, Bernie. You can't primary Joe Biden.
I repeat, it's not 1968 all over again.
Cha
(298,193 posts)I trust Pres Biden.. he's going to win!
unblock
(52,531 posts)Mike Nelson
(9,992 posts)... we were in Vietnam for years... lost many Americans. We're not in Gaza and Biden is pressuring Israel to cease fire and get out! I don't see much comparison.
Uncle Joe
(58,602 posts)Thanks for the thread Mr. Sparkle
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,804 posts)Haggard Celine
(16,869 posts)If they combine forces, they could draw away a lot of the youth vote. Bernie needs to shut the fuck up or we're going to see the end of our democracy.
oldsoftie
(12,682 posts)I guess people have never heard "dont cut off your nose to spite your face"
After the border, gas prices. Both are BIG problems whether we like it or not
mvd
(65,187 posts)Last edited Thu May 2, 2024, 08:10 PM - Edit history (1)
Agreed we should be tougher on Israel. And Bernie is a favorite of mine. But this is not Vietnam as of now.
Lovie777
(12,434 posts)freedom of speech, besides other things that does not inflict violence and spew unwarranted hate and prejudices towards others.
Differences yes, but a way to live together with respect.
So, if Sanders think this is protest is another Vietnam, never forget that some American's treated the American's soldiers like shit when they came home.
Irish_Dem
(48,271 posts)SMH
No American boys are coming home in body bags.
iemanja
(53,137 posts)There could be widespread protests at the convention, and it has the potential of costing Biden the convention because a sizable number of voters are angry over the war. In other words, it could be like 1968. I understand that's a pessimistic view, but it is possible.
I just want to be clear. While I oppose the war, I will absolutely vote for Biden without fail.
JohnSJ
(92,556 posts)Nina Turner and Brihana Joy Gray not only refused to vote for Hillary in the general election, but encouraged others to do likewise to teach the establishment Democrats a lesson. That worked out real well, and lost us the Supreme Court.
This time if they are foolish enough do that, we will lose our democracy if trump wins.
AOC when asked about Gaza and the presidential election responded that the most important issue is protecting our Democracy, and that means voting for Joe Biden.
If they want to be the fly in the ointment, and not vote for Biden, and it results in trump regaining the White House, they will face the consequences, and their generation will really be a lost generation, because they arent going to recover from this, and there wont be any do overs.
Hassler
(3,408 posts)Not Biden.
Cha
(298,193 posts)President Bidens Vietnam!
Cha
(298,193 posts)blue-wave
(4,380 posts)The Kremlin and their allies have their fingerprints all over this conflict. It's been discussed many times here at DU. The enemies of our way of life are to blame for this whole mess. BTW, where is it that Bernie spent his honeymoon? Do your research.
wryter2000
(46,148 posts)It isn't Biden's. There is no reason this should be his Vietnam.
Response to Mr. Sparkle (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
ancianita
(36,249 posts)JohnSJ
(92,556 posts)Hamas is responsible for breaking the ceasefire, killing, brutalizing womens private areas, raping them, and killing them.
Netanyahu is responsible for reckless execution of the reprisal despite the warnings from the Biden administration, and the killing of civilians caught between.
Biden has been working behind the scenes for a ceasefire , release of hostages, and a two state solution behind the scenes, which many people may not be aware of.
The Unmitigated Gall
(3,840 posts)Ocelot II
(116,045 posts)not the least of which is that the US is not a party to the current conflict. No US military personnel are involved, and most especially no Americans are being drafted and sent to fight in Gaza. Lest we forget, the draft was an essential motivator of the Vietnam protests - it wasn't just that the war was stupid and pointless, but that people were being drafted to fight in it. Also, in those days protesters didn't harass other American students on account of their ethnicity just because of the side of the war they supported or represented.
paleotn
(18,018 posts)See my reply #45. Great minds think alike. And Bernie is full of shit.
Freethinker65
(10,121 posts)JohnSJ
(92,556 posts)enid602
(8,679 posts)How many demonstrations in Tel Aviv regarding the conduct of the war or the siege/blockade of Gaza? This is not a Vietnam from Israels standpoint.
AnrothElf
(698 posts)In Gaza? Nothing. Crickets.
Maybe we go back in time a bit... surely Gazans have massively protested Hamas at some point in the last almost 20 years that Hamas has had absolute authoritarian control of Gaza?
Crickets. Not even during the Arab Spring did Gazans rise up against their terroristic overlords -- not even when they stole their food, their foreign aid, and spent it on missiles to lob at Israel in order to -- in their own words, as they like to brag repeatedly -- wipe Israel off the map.
Weird, right? It's almost like Gazans actually support the terrorists they voted into power in the only election they've held in the last two decades! After Israel unilaterally evacuated Gaza, even forcing Gazan Jews to leave, and digging up corpses from graveyards!
So weird!!! And Gazans being so open-minded and all that they allow a diverse population of -- what? Oh, what? Gazans don't allow Jews into Gaza, but millions of Arabs live in Israel as equal citizens?
What? There are more Arabs marching against Netanyahoo in Israel than have EVER marched against Hamas, anywhere on Earth, ever?
So weird!
If my army was committing these atrocities I would be protesting. Period. You cant just wait until the carnage stops and blame it on Netanyahu. The Germans already proved that doesnt work.
AnrothElf
(698 posts)Marching is a time-honored method of protest. Definitely more effective than cosplaying a terrorist.
enid602
(8,679 posts)So protesters in all principal world cities (except for Tel Aviv and Jerusalem) are merely cosplaying terrorists. WOW. Bye.
AnrothElf
(698 posts)The two are not comparable. One is a massive protest against Netanyahoo's right-wing government by the citizen's of that nation.
The other is an unhinged, incoherent attention-grabbing charade by cosplaying terrorists half-way around the world, and their impressionable "passionate" followers.
Shrieking "WE ARE HAMAS!" is a far cry from Selma.
This isn't civil disobedience, it's occupation tactics, and we're being conditioned to accept ever more civil unrest as "legitimate protest". Jan. 6th was one such exercise. This has been another.
Fuck that noise.
A sit-in is one thing. Occupying a building and expecting to retain moral superiority in one's vaunted cause is an entirely different thing. And that thing is a joke.
myohmy2
(3,235 posts)...is right...
...I just hope he's not too right about Joe...
...
honest.abe
(8,697 posts)Thanks Bernie for attempting to make it an issue.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,539 posts)Patton French
(805 posts)And a completely false comparison. What in the world is he hoping to accomplish?
Response to Mr. Sparkle (Original post)
RandySF This message was self-deleted by its author.
RandySF
(59,968 posts)just shut the fuck up.
Nixie
(17,022 posts)something he said about the Constitution. It wasn't helping, only inflaming. So I come back tonight and there are even more comments---none helping, only flaming.
You have it exactly right! If he has nothing helpful to say, then.........
Blue Idaho
(5,075 posts)And Bernie knows better.
relayerbob
(6,562 posts)TexasDem69
(1,910 posts)And replaced with a Democrat.
OutNow
(870 posts)Ever been to Vermont? I suspect you have not. Some day Bernie will retire. Until then he will be a Senator from Vermont.
Use your time to elect from Democrats in Texas. That would be nice.
MistakenLamb
(546 posts)this is nothing like Vietnam. you dumbass
DemocraticPatriot
(4,548 posts)It is ISRAEL's....
(although it seems they will not pay such a cost as the U.S. did in Vietnam,
for all their My Lai's...)
(I don't hate Jews, and I don't hate Israel---
but I HATE what the Israeli government and military are doing in Gaza
AND in the West Bank!)
Of course American Jews, and those anywhere else around the world,
should not be blamed or persecuted
for what the Israeli military is doing in the middle east
(and many of them are opposed to it!)
betsuni
(25,853 posts)in terms of his views on Israel and this war."
Who in the actual Democratic base is Biden alienating with U.S. foreign policy?
Cha
(298,193 posts)something that was said in 2012 about Pres Obama.
Didn't work then Thank Goodness!
Tribetime
(4,739 posts)Just listening and seeing the students and their passionate.Although it's not vietnam the result might be the same
AnrothElf
(698 posts)"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
betsuni
(25,853 posts)"Public support for the Recovery Act had grown over the weeks it had taken to pass the bill. But soon enough, the noise would have an impact, reversing that trend. Meanwhile, a decent portion of my own Democratic base ... seemed less content with everything we'd managed to get into the Recovery Act than mad about the much smaller number of things we'd had to give up. Liberal commentators insisted that if I had shown more spine in resisting the Gand of Four's demands, the stimulus would have been bigger. (This despite the fact that it was twice as big as what many of those commentators had been calling for just a few weeks earlier.) Women's groups were unhappy about the contraception provisions that had been removed. Transportation groups complained that the increase in mass transit dollars wasn't all they had sought. Environmentalists seemed to be spending more time objecting to the small fraction of funding that went to clean coal projects than celebrating the Recovery Act's massive investment in renewable energy.
"Between Republican attacks and Democratic complaints, I was reminded of the Yeats poem: 'The Second Coming.' My supporters lacked all conviction, while my opponents were full of passionate intensity."
betsuni
(25,853 posts)by their own tactics." Saul Alinsky, 1971
Emotion isn't a strategy, it can be a trap.
Avoid Traps 🪤
pwb
(11,325 posts)Our country has been giving Israel aid since the 1950s. How the fuck is it all of the sudden a single persons fault. We don't need you talking out of both sides of your mouth on Israel Bernie. You sound like Putin for fuck sakes.
SunSeeker
(51,853 posts)LiberaBlueDem
(943 posts)We should all get with him.
Vinca
(50,343 posts)Netanyahu will continue to wage his war even if every resource is cut off to him. The Israeli people need to oust him if they ever want anything close to peace again. I want to scream at the protesters that what they are doing amounts to nothing. If they want to help the people of Gaza, they should be volunteering with organizations trying to get help to them. It seems on one side you have someone making a difference like Chef Andres and his World Central Kitchen and on the other hand you have protest Woodstock where you can watch people laughing and smiling as they get arrested.